Noshing With Warren Kozak – March 7, 2024

Ira Sternberg: Welcome to Ira's Everything Bagel, where I talk with intriguing people about everything—their passions, pursuits, and points of view. Death is not only a hard topic to talk about, but also to accept. We all cope with the death of loved ones in our own ways, and one of those ways is to write about grief and how to live after the sorrow. My guest today is Warren Kozak. He’s the author of Waving Goodbye: Life After Loss, available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and all the usual places. For everything about Warren, go to WarrenKozak.com—that’s W-A-R-R-E-N-K-O-Z-A-K. Warren, welcome to the show.

Warren Kozak: Thank you, Ira, it’s a pleasure to be here with you, and, of course, the bagels.

Ira Sternberg: Always the bagels. To quote you—and this is a direct quote: "To those around me, my friends, my colleagues, even my daughter, I appear normal. But in one very fundamental way, I am not. The old me left with my wife. I’m not sure who this new person is. I am still evolving, but I will tell you this with absolute certainty: I am not the same person I was before January 1, 2018." That must have been quite an ordeal. I know you’re still going through it, but can you give us some background on what led you to write the book?

Warren Kozak: Sure, Ira. It’s a book I never expected to write. I’ve written a couple of other books, very different topics. One was about a Hasidic rabbi, which allowed me to look into the Jewish world in Europe before World War II. Another was a biography of one of the most controversial Air Force generals in U.S. history, Curtis LeMay. But I never planned on writing this one. After my wife died on January 1, 2018, people brought me books on grief. Almost all of them were impossible to read—written by psychologists, psychiatrists, grief counselors. They may have helped others, but they didn’t help me. My brain function just… stopped.

Ira Sternberg: That’s surprising. You mean your brain function completely stopped?

Warren Kozak: Exactly. Some background here: my wife had a four-year illness, during which time we spent a lot of time in hospitals, dealing with doctors. Our daughter was in high school then—she’s since graduated college and is working now. But back then, I was handling everything: my wife’s care, raising our daughter, managing a full-time job, and dealing with hospitals and doctors. I was able to manage it all, mostly from the hospital. But when my wife died, it was as if my brain went out to lunch. I was shocked; I didn’t expect that. So when people gave me books written in academic styles, I just couldn’t get through them.

Ira Sternberg: It’s understandable. Your brain had probably been in overdrive, and then it was like hitting a wall.

Warren Kozak: Yes, exactly. About five years after she died, I looked back at my diary. I’ve kept one since 1980 when I was traveling so much for work that I couldn’t remember where I was. So, I started writing it down, and it became a habit. For some reason, I went back to read the entries from the last four months of her life and immediately after. I was surprised by what I found. And around that time, I received an email from a friend which struck a chord, so I included it in the diary. Eventually, I called him, and we met to talk. He shared his own story of loss, and I realized there were shared experiences and lessons I could share.

Ira Sternberg: And was that the initial spark for the book?

Warren Kozak: Yes, it was. My friend told me about his first wife, who died in childbirth. He was left with an infant daughter, a demanding job, and his grief. He eventually met someone who was able to take on a grieving widower and his infant daughter, and he’s since had a successful life and marriage. But he told me that he still felt waves of sadness unexpectedly. His friend, a psychiatrist, told him he wasn’t depressed—just sad. Even after all these years, the impact was still there. But the good news for anyone going through this is that it does get better. It may not seem like it in the first year or two, but it does improve.

Ira Sternberg: Your approach is very practical and accessible. It’s not academic but something readers can relate to, which is so helpful for people dealing with grief.

Warren Kozak: Thank you. Yes, I wrote it in short chapters and short sentences, making it easy to grasp even if you’re in a fog. I wanted people going through this to understand that they’re not alone. I tried to share what worked, what didn’t, and to give a realistic view of the journey.

Ira Sternberg: You’re offering hope in a very realistic way, and I think that’s important. Everyone says “time heals all wounds,” which is partly true, but your book shows it’s not just about time passing but about navigating each day.

Warren Kozak: Absolutely. I actually came to hate that phrase, “Time heals all wounds.” It was so cliché, and I didn’t believe it. But in a way, it’s true. I describe it as a new timeline. During her illness, I felt like a countdown clock was ticking down to her death. What I didn’t realize was that time would continue in the other direction afterward, with a new continuum—what I call the “time after Lisa.” It was dreadful at first, but little by little, putting on my socks and going to work each day helped. Eventually, I became a normal human being again, but it took time.

Ira Sternberg: Did you organize the book by subject matter or chronologically?

Warren Kozak: Good question. I started chronologically, with what happened on January 1, 2018. Even though I’d been expecting it, her death shocked me. I thought I’d be prepared, but it hit me hard. Then I go on to describe my experience of grieving, how I found small ways to move forward, and how I eventually found a way back to life.

Ira Sternberg: Was it the finality of her passing that shocked you?

Warren Kozak: I think it was partly that, but also the mystery of death itself. Here was someone I knew better than anyone in the world—better than my parents or my siblings. But suddenly, she was gone, and there was this unknown realm she’d moved into. Death is the great mystery of life, and it was unsettling.

Ira Sternberg: How did your Jewish faith help you through this period?

Warren Kozak: I was reluctant to talk about religion in the book because it’s such a personal subject, and I didn’t want to alienate anyone. But as I wrote, I realized death is so intertwined with religion that I couldn’t ignore it. For me, my faith provided order and comfort. The rituals, like Shiva—the seven days of mourning—helped. Shiva forces you to act human, to engage with people when you’d rather just shut the world out. It’s an amazing process.

Ira Sternberg: And it forces you to go through the motions of life, even when you don’t feel like it.

Warren Kozak: Yes. It made me act like a normal person even when I felt far from it. Our house was filled with people every night. I felt terrible for people who lost loved ones during COVID and couldn’t have visitors. That must have been devastating.

Ira Sternberg: I already have an idea for your next book: Death and Atheists. You mention different religious rituals, but for atheists, how do they cope?

Warren Kozak: That would be interesting, but I don’t think I could write it—I’m not an atheist. But I’m sure it would make a fascinating book.

Ira Sternberg: Let’s talk a bit about your background as a writer. How did you get started?

Warren Kozak: Right out of college, my first job was with ABC News. I’d wanted to work in journalism since I was a child. I remember coming home from school and turning on the TV, looking for cartoons, and finding The Huntley-Brinkley Report. I was fascinated. Huntley and Brinkley brought the world into my house, and I thought that was amazing. So I pursued journalism and ended up writing and reporting for various outlets, including NPR. But about 25 years ago, I began to feel that TV news was changing, and not in a good way. Since then, I’ve worked for one individual, a fascinating man deeply involved in the Jewish world, who also supports Alzheimer’s research and other causes.

Ira Sternberg: That sounds like a rewarding experience. He must have been supportive when your wife became ill.

Warren Kozak: Yes, he was. When she got sick, he told me to stop traveling and work remotely so I could be with her. Because of that, I was able to be with her for the last three years of her life, and that’s something I’ll always be grateful for.

Ira Sternberg: That’s a rare gift. When you finished the book, did your daughter read it? And what was her reaction?

Warren Kozak: Yes, I gave it to her after it was complete. I end the book with something she wrote in college, a piece she wrote about her mother’s death. It’s beautiful, and I thought it was important to include her perspective—losing a mother is very different from losing a spouse.

Ira Sternberg: Did your boss read the book?

Warren Kozak: No, I haven’t shared it with him yet, though I did thank him in the book.

Ira Sternberg: What’s the main takeaway you’d like readers to get from your book?

Warren Kozak: The main thing is that it does get better. Life can be good again. There was a day last fall, just a gorgeous day. I was walking down Madison Avenue, listening to music, and I suddenly realized I was happy. I was enjoying life. And that feeling is possible.

Ira Sternberg: Was there a particular piece of music that helped you through it all?

Warren Kozak: Yes, Eva Cassidy’s music really helped. She has a very sad story herself—she died young from cancer, and her music gained fame posthumously. There’s something about her voice that touches the heart. I write about how much sad music there is, and it surprised me that I hadn’t fully heard these lyrics before.

Ira Sternberg: Music has a way of reaching us when words alone can’t. Well, Warren, thank you for sharing your story with us today.

Warren Kozak: Thank you, Ira. It’s been a pleasure.

Ira Sternberg: And that’s a wrap for this episode of Ira’s Everything Bagel. Join us every Thursday for a new schmear.