Noshing With George Stevens Jr. – June 2, 2022

Ira Sternberg: Welcome to Ira's Everything Bagel where I talk with intriguing people about everything, their passions, pursuits and points of view. I rarely have a guest on twice, but anytime I have an opportunity to have George Stevens Jr. on again, I jump at the chance. As I said in the first show, when you have someone who combines passion and principle in two power centers, Hollywood and Washington DC, through both a golden age and a time of simultaneous upheavals in civil rights and war, it's amazing my guest not only survived but prospered and contributed to the culture of the nation. Academy Award recipient George Stevens Jr. is author of "My Place in the Sun: Life in the Golden Age of Hollywood and Washington" and his audiobook is now out and available at all the places you get your audiobooks from. For everything about George Stevens Jr. go to georgestevensjr.com and George, welcome back to the show.

George Stevens Jr. Well, what a pleasure. Thank you, Ira.

Ira Sternberg: Thank you for coming on again. And what was the process like when you were recording the audiobook? How did that differ from all of the trials and tribulations of putting together your book? Obviously the research, the writing, and I know you did that during COVID, which made it a little bit easier. But I can imagine, I know there's a long question and a statement at the same time, but I can imagine it's rather laborious to record a memoir in audiobook form.

George Stevens Jr. It was a new adventure. I had not anticipated how time consuming it would be, though I took pleasure in it. You know, it was hard work, but I think I was in a recording studio for more than 50 hours to do this book. And being a filmmaker in the technical world, happily my editor, whom I've never met, who was in Nashville, just a superb fellow who does a lot of the best books, said, "I know you're a professional and you're used to editing. I will be patient with anything you want to throw at us." And he really was, because I found it necessary to listen to the whole thing, make notes, want to do little fixes, because sort of my mantra is, you know, that you just keep working on it until you get it right. So I really enjoyed it and I'm so happy that people who are listening to it tell me that they're enjoying it, more importantly.

Ira Sternberg: Well, you've always had what I call this mellifluous voice, so I think it works out very well. And I would imagine when you're recording an audiobook, and I was in my mind assuming that you might have done it at home, but you actually had to go to a recording studio to do it.

George Stevens Jr. Yeah. Then they were very picky. My editor, Mark Gallup, said sometimes he'd give me notes and he'd say, "There's a noise." And I would listen to it and I couldn't hear the noise. And he told me something very interesting. He said audiobook listeners are very... I don't think he used the word picky. Let's let that... and he said our publishers get notes, people complaining about noises that they can hear, but I couldn't hear.

Ira Sternberg: Right. So did all of that. And what was really interesting to me, and it was, it was, it was satisfying, was that in going and reading the book, there were very few places where I had to change any wording. And importantly, there were no places where I felt, "Oh gosh, I wish it, I'd have cut this or I'd said it differently." That the COVID time that gave me the opportunity to really refine the book paid off for me. I, I love the way it read and was happy to read it. And, and I think also too, George, that because of your writing skills, even though you write for the, is, you're writing for the eye is different from writing for the ear, but you were able to bridge that. So you didn't have to make any changes when you did the audio version. Were you satisfied at the end of recording? And now I want to talk about some other things with you, but just this last point, when you put together the audiobook, were you satisfied at everything? And then your editor said, "Well, we need to change one thing." Or were you more picky than the editor?

George Stevens Jr. With the exception of the sounds that he heard that you didn't hear...

Ira Sternberg: He was mainly concerned about audio.

George Stevens Jr. ...but they also picked up little, you know, they questioned readings. So we were both making our lists, right? And then it was long, long lists. But every one of these little fixes, you know, I tell the story about, you know, working with my father and how he taught me respect for the audience. We can call it respect for the listener in terms of an audiobook. When we were, I was 23 and we were working on the editing of "Giant" and had been, you know, it had been going on for over a year. And I was young and, you know, I had a golf game and stuff. And, and at one point I just said to him, "Dad," I said, "We've previewed this picture. It is, it is really so good. I think you just ought to put it out there." And he said, um, he said, "Well, when you think about how many men and women hours are going to be spent watching this film over the years, don't you think it's worth a little more of our time to make it as good as it can be?" So that lead, leads me to find every little fix and I could do this better. So it's a project and I'm glad I did it.

Ira Sternberg: No, absolutely. And there are so many lessons you learned from your father, as we talked about in our last conversation. I'm curious with the COVID on allowing you to write the memoir, because it freed you up time-wise, you were stuck in the house. Do you think that COVID has had a lasting effect on the future of film in terms of the industry? People not going to movie theaters, people just staying home and watching streaming rather than going and experiencing what you and I and millions of people have experienced when you go to a great theater and see a great film and share it with the people in the audience.

George Stevens Jr. Well, it certainly has had an effect. Whether the effect will be permanent is still to be seen.

Ira Sternberg: Yes.

George Stevens Jr. You know, I am just, I so believe in the big screen, being in the dark with other people, as the true film experience. You know, to see that, those in, those figures that are bigger than you are, rather than the little people across the room on your screen.

Ira Sternberg: Right.

George Stevens Jr. So I very much hope that the, the movie-going practice in theaters will become robust again. But it's, it's an uncertainty.

Ira Sternberg: It is. You mentioned your father a moment ago in the editing of "Giant" and how he was going to take a little bit more time even though you were anxious to get to the golf course. Do you think he would marvel at the technical aspects of film today? That it's digital and what was considered laborious in those days with cut and paste, and I use that term, but yeah, as opposed to in the movieola and all of that, as opposed now using a computer and being able to change things digitally, both visually and audibly.

George Stevens Jr. Yeah, he was always on the cutting edge of technology. He had the first Polaroid camera. And he would just be fascinated, you know. And I think also just computers and digital, you know, he left us before all of that was on the scene.

Ira Sternberg: How about you? You've seen the transition. You, you were there pre-digital and you're here post-digital.

George Stevens Jr. Yeah.

Ira Sternberg: So do you see it as an effective tool working in the digital format? I know that there was a concern that from the film point of view, the visual point of view, you couldn't replicate what celluloid did using digital tools, but it seems to have improved considerably in the last 15 years or so.

George Stevens Jr. It has. And, and, and things are possible that weren't before. Particularly retrospectively and the restoration of films. Uh, since you and I talked, we did a restoration. It was in progress when we last spoke of "Giant." Steven Spielberg called me one day and said, "Your father's 'Giant' is a masterpiece." He said, "With the digital tools, we can improve those overlapping dissolves that are less perfect than they were when the film first came out." So we did that, you know. And, and, and we were able to make "Giant" look just as good as it did on the first night. And we premiered that showing on digital, which now can assume the characteristics of film, at the Chinese Theater in the IMAX theater where, before IMAX, 65 years ago, "Giant" had premiered. You know. And, and to see that film restored in that way with a huge audience in the dark, laughing, responding, you know, it was really a thrill of this idea of the test of time being the measure of a work of art. When you see it in that context, you're seeing it both restored and you also remember your father while you're watching it as well. I would think that you would be...

Ira Sternberg: So I do.

George Stevens Jr. Yeah. And, and it happens, you know, the digital tools can be a little dangerous because it gives the operator the chance to make everything darker, everything lighter, louder. And it's so important, and I am the last person involved who has a quite precise recollection of how that picture looked and sounded. And the mission of the people at Warner Brothers, and it, Martin Scorsese and Stevens Film Foundation who collaborated on this, was to make this picture look the way it looked when George Stevens said, "All right, it's done."

Ira Sternberg: Were you the last eyes on it before it was totally finished with him?

George Stevens Jr. Yes.

Ira Sternberg: Right. And I am, I, I guess the survivor of the people who were around and worked on it and really knew what the picture looked like. And then of course, right after the screening, you went and played a round of golf.

(Both laugh)

Ira Sternberg: A video book for a second. I know that the book itself, and it's an a very good read, I recommend it highly for people who are interested in all elements of what I mentioned in the introduction. Not just film, not just talent, but politics and government and power centers and quality, and all those elements all come together in your memoir. Do you think that people will get that flavor as well from the audiobook? I, I'm, I'm going to say you're going to say yes because clearly you're, you're voicing it. So it's even more of your voice and even just the writing.

George Stevens Jr. Yes. And I'm hearing from people who are very, uh, engaged with it and moved by it. And they laugh with it, they tell me. And that is great. And so it is, you know, a choice. The, the book has, I have 110 wonderful photographs.

Ira Sternberg: You know, the audio version does. And, but there is something very special, I think, about it in, in, in my experience hearing David McCullough or Will Smith, for two examples, read their books. You know, they really, that voice. And I think in the case particularly of when it's an autobiographical piece, you are hearing the author and the subject of the book. I think it's a little different for you in this sense that most celebrities, when they record a memoir, the public is familiar with their voice, so they are more emotionally connected. Not everybody knows your voice. It's a wonderful voice, but not as many people would know that as, as a major star because you worked in the background in, in so many decades. And yes, you appeared on screen and you appeared on the radio, but not to the extent that some of the celebrities do. But I think what comes through on the audiobook is the integrity of the book and through your voice, because you know that what you're reading is your story and your life. And so that authenticity, I think, makes a big difference to people when they listen.

George Stevens Jr. I hope so. And I think too that those who have read the book would buy the audiobook just to have a companion piece to it. Because it is a period of time in America and it involves so many different levels and so many different topics that you would want to have that as a companion piece.

Ira Sternberg: I would, I would again speculate that I'm talking away more than you here, but I would also speculate that researchers in libraries and colleges, universities, will use the audiobook as well to get the flavor of some of the material that they would get from the reading the book as well.

George Stevens Jr. Yes, I think so. And I realized recording the book in a way that I hadn't when I was writing it, why people seem so taken with it. Elizabeth, my wife, and I, your experience in Hollywood with American Film Institute and other projects, our experience in Washington and politics, and our experience... Well, I was producing and she was doing the Saturday night dinners for the honorees that we honored 197 of the most talented people in, in the world of culture in the arts. And I think it is that, what, that is what makes this book, you know, our amazing friends and those experiences of why it appeals to people so much.

Ira Sternberg: You're right. And I left out the world of personalities and actors and actresses and all of that, and that's part of that story as well. And politicians too, because, and presidents. So yes, it's a major, it's a major story. Do you see the memoir becoming a film?

George Stevens Jr. Well, I, I wouldn't mind, but I'm not going to make it.

(Both laugh)

George Stevens Jr. That would be such an act of narcissism, even for me.

Ira Sternberg: And you probably wouldn't want to play yourself either because you'd rather be out on the golf course. So have somebody else play... In that sense, with all the people that you've met over the years and the decades in all elements of your career and your life, who, beside your father, had the most impact on you? Was there one other person or two other people?

George Stevens Jr. Two other people at a changing point, at a time of change in my life, where I had been, up until the age of 29, I had been working in Hollywood, but in the Air Force, working with my father on, uh, "Shane," "Giant," "The Diary of Anne Frank." And I was directing "Peter Gunn" and "Alfred Hitchcock Presents." No, I was having this kind of wonderful career, although from time to time you're kind of wondering if my destiny in life was to work very hard and become the second best film director in my family. And then Edward R. Murrow came into the picture, the great broadcaster, man of such integrity and talent. And he asked me to come to Washington and join the Kennedy administration and had the motion picture a division of USIA that he was running, telling America's story abroad on The Voice of America and with films and other means. And that was just such a, an open doors. It gave me a new wife. Gave me a wife, my first wife. And, uh, and this opportunity to make these films, 300 films a year, to show overseas, telling about America and our foreign policy. And Edward R. Murrow was a tremendous influence. He was a man of such integrity and had a quality of leadership and humor and just, you know. And he was, put me in a position to do this, was supportive and nurturing in all good ways. As was President Kennedy. And though on the less close basis, though we were acquainted and we spoke from time to time, just to have those influence of those two men and my father at that time of my life and career was tremendously important. President Kennedy was inspiring in many ways, but he won... He used to, his, his speeches, and he, he used to have wonderful quotes in his speeches. And he was fond of the, uh, speaking of the Greek definition of happiness, the fullest use of one's powers along lines of excellence. And you know, I had written that down. And then suddenly I realized here I was in this most exciting time to be in the federal government, perhaps ever. And, uh, with all this extraordinary people around, and I was making these films, and I was at, at their invitation, earning that kind of happiness, working my hardest to produce excellence for that administration. So. And if you just want another John F. Kennedy quote that I wrote down that had consequences when I had the idea for doing the Kennedy Center Honors. I had an office in the Kennedy Center in Washington. I went downstairs to see the head of the Kennedy Center, Roger Stevens, no relation. And we had just produced AFI's 10th anniversary in the Kennedy Center Opera House. Was on CBS. It was kind of put AFI on the map nationally. And I, I said to Roger, I said, "You ought to have your own show for the Kennedy Center." And he said, he had a hard way of talk, he says, "Do you have any IDs?" "Actually, I, I do have an idea." And I said, "I'll, I'll provide it in one sentence. There are words carved in the marble on the walls of this building, a memorial to President Kennedy, his words. 'I look forward to an America that will not be afraid of grace and beauty, that will reward achievement in the arts the way we reward achievement in business and statecraft.'" And darin was the idea for the Kennedy Center Honors.

Ira Sternberg: So those are the two men that most influenced you. Are you, with your perspective on life and, and country and career, are you optimistic about the future of the country? I asked you earlier about whether you're optimistic about the future of cinema. What about in just the country itself?

George Stevens Jr. Okay. All through my life and career, much of which was in Washington, uh, in touch with, I guess, six or seven presidents, I never questioned, never occurred to me that our democracy was fragile. Not even during Watergate. You know, the senators on both sides of the aisle saw it, the Justice Department had integrity, was proceeding, and people kind of played by the norms and rules. That I have a little concern in my mind of how we are going to restore our democratic form of government to the stability that it deserves and requires.

Ira Sternberg: Do you think cinema can play a part in that?

George Stevens Jr. Uh, yes. In fact, I have, I'm working on a very ambitious film idea that I cannot disclose to you at this moment...

Ira Sternberg: That's okay, I understand.

George Stevens Jr. ...but I, it isn't very much in that vein. The story of great scope and importance that I think would, would give comfort to viewers today and inspiration to see how this great democracy can work in fraught times.

Ira Sternberg: What keeps you going, George? You have had such an illustrious career. I'm not pandering to you, I just, I'm acknowledging the reality of what you've done over the decades. But what keeps you going now? You mentioned you just wrote the memoir, you just recorded the audiobook, which again is available wherever audiobooks are available. And now you're working on this project which you're not sharing with me, which I understand because it's not at that point. But what keeps you going in terms of productivity, writing, thinking, all of that?

George Stevens Jr. You know, I, I quoted at the end of my book Bertrand Russell, the essay he'd written many years ago on the something of being 90. And he talked about how... I can't quote it with any exactness, but how of life being productive, working on things of importance, is a very stimulating factor. And you know, I, I would have done what I've done most, almost everything I've done in my life, I would have done if they hadn't paid me. I did it because I loved it. And so, you know, I get up in the morning and I like to do this stuff.

Ira Sternberg: Does your wife have patience for you?

(Both laugh)

George Stevens Jr. Which is a great gift. Absolutely correct. Absolutely correct.

Ira Sternberg: Your book, when it came out, was "My Place in the Sun: Life in the Golden Age of Hollywood and Washington." And of course now the audiobook. But do you feel that you're totally out of the shadow of your father?

George Stevens Jr. Yeah, I think I do. I think I do, yes. Um, I mean, I, I think, you know, particularly with the writing of this book and the response to it, you know, can... I loved being in his shadow. I mean, I was close to him and, and was he... When I, when Edward R. Murrow first spoke with me about this, which was kind of stunning, a new idea and very flattering, I told him I couldn't do it. And I said, "I'm just about to start... We just finished 'The Diary of Anne Frank' and I had shot the location scenes in Amsterdam. And I was like my, very much my father's junior partner. And he was starting 'The Greatest Story Ever Told.' And I didn't feel I could leave him." And it was only when I told him of the meeting with Murrow, we were walking across the 20th Century Fox lot until lunch. I remember it as if it were yesterday. He stopped walking and looked at me. He said, "I think you may have to do it." He was a father seeing what the son could not see. That there was perhaps other opportunities for me apart from him.

Ira Sternberg: And you know, that generosity of spirit was of course made him a wonderful father. And you went from one man of integrity to working for another man of integrity. So that worked out well too.

George Stevens Jr. Yeah.

Ira Sternberg: Well, I think that's a great way to leave it. My guest has been Academy Award recipient George Stevens Jr. He's author of "My Place in the Sun: Life in the Golden Age of Hollywood and Washington." And his audiobook is now out and available at all the places you get your audiobooks from. For everything about George Stevens Jr., go to georgestevensjr.com. And there's a lot of stuff on the website. Check it out. George, thanks for being on the show again. I love talking with you.

George Stevens Jr. I had a good time. Thank you.

Ira Sternberg: And join us every Thursday for a new smear on Ira's Everything Bagel.