Noshing With Bruce Vilanch – July 28, 2022

Ira Sternberg: Welcome to Ira's Everything Bagel where I talk with intriguing people about everything, their passions, pursuits and points of view. My guest today is a man known for not only his writing skills and his sense of humor, but also for his passion for humor, charity, eclectic eyewear and unique t-shirts. The one, the only Bruce Vilanch. For everything about Bruce, hello. I was going to mention for everything about Bruce, go to wegotbruce.com and you can follow him on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. And officially, Bruce, welcome to the show.

Bruce Vilanch: Thank you. I'm thrilled. I and my eclectic eyewear are thrilled to be here now. First of all, you're taking my lighting.

Ira Sternberg: First of all, what were you thinking agreeing to come on my show? Yeah, they said Vegas, something about Vegas. Something he's in Vegas. Anybody deserves compassion. Exactly. Even though I've been there many times, even though this show is more about the idea world of ideas and people, but yes, I am in Las Vegas. So which branch of Hollywood are you part of? Reform, conservative or orthodox as opposed as it applies to Hollywood. Yes, of course. Atheists in your case.

Bruce Vilanch: I think I'm reconstructionist.

Ira Sternberg: I like it. Yeah, it's a whole other, it's a different sect exactly from all of them. We're building back from the ashes and eventually you'll get there. Hopefully. I thought about you for a while about this because I've never seen it show up in any of your conversations that I've been able to listen to or watch, but you strike me as an old soul. So my question is, do you feel an emotional connection with the comedy of the comedians of the Catskills?

Bruce Vilanch: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, partially because I'm that, I'm of that age. You know, I was watching Billy Crystal, who I've worked with for years, was on Colbert the other night. He was talking about the comic he plays in Mr. Saturday Night, but a young junior has been kind of an obsession of his over the years because we grew up in that era where we, and we grew up in New York and Jersey, and we went to the Catskills. And then we saw those guys when we were young and impressionable, and that was the predominant style. In the course of my maturing, a whole other style came in, a whole sort of a very hip political, Dick Gregory, Mort Saul, uh, Shelley Berman, Bob Newhart, guys who were not in the Milton Berle, Alan King, you know, tradition. So, so we were also influenced by that, George Carlin. So, um, there was, uh, so, so it evolved, but yeah, it's all, it's still there. You know, and especially with what was on television when we were kids. You know, and we were watching television a lot when we were kids. Sure. Ed Sullivan and all the comedians that came on there.

Ira Sternberg: Yeah, all their shows. Were you a fan of Jackie Mason?

Bruce Vilanch: Yeah, I was always a fan of Jackie Mason and uh, I was annoyed that Ed Sullivan had sort of blacklisted him. And then, uh, and I was thrilled when he had a comeback. And then I actually got to know him a little bit, be friends with him. He was that, he was a tough customer, you know. He was a mercurial guy. And as he got, he got, he got so successful later in life, and he just kept doing uh, shows. And he, I think had a hard time finding material because his material got angry and racist and it just, it weirdly took on a lot of, uh, a lot of colors it never had before. And I think that unfortunately, a lot of people remember him from that period when he was, uh, a big star, but it was already on the way in. And so he was like trying to be, you know, contemporary.

Ira Sternberg: That's not unusual. I mean, it happened to Joan Rivers also.

Bruce Vilanch: I wrote for Joan. And, uh, after Edgar died, she had to reframe herself. And among the things that happened was she discovered, uh, working for audience, but she discovered that gossip and, uh, and making fun of, uh, celebrities because she couldn't make fun of herself anymore. So, uh, or of her husband. So she, uh, that became her stock and trade. And then as, as she got older and she wants to connect with the younger audience, she got really dirty. And I remember my mother and her card game went to see her at in Jersey. And my mother called me up and said, "When did she get the mouth on her?" Healthy, I think it used to be filthy. She wasn't filthy in Miami and the Concorde. She must call me then. I said, "Well, you know, the times they are changing."

Ira Sternberg: Yes, and the people are if they want to keep going. So when that's, yeah, you mentioned your mom, you have a great relationship with her. You've always been connected with your mom, even from the, you went to Ohio from the East Coast with a bunch of people and eventually went to Hollywood, but you've always had this very strong relationship with your mom. Was she a tough cookie, but very supportive? Would that be the, yeah.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, she's gone now. She, she left in 95. Her joke was, uh, "The first 90 years were easy. The second 95…"

Ira Sternberg: That, that's when her, she began to decline.

Bruce Vilanch: But she was herself until the end. She was just a prisoner of her body. But we, uh, she was my adopted mother. She adopted me when I was four days old. And I just found my birth mother who died shortly after my adopted mother died. Ironically enough. But that whole, that whole family finally surfaced after seven years of spitting into a cup.

Ira Sternberg: Uh, but yeah, I mean, she was, she was very controlling and she was a tough customer, but she was really funny. And, uh, and my parents encouraged me. I mean, they, they enabled me because they recognized I was happy when I was making faces in front of the mirror. And I was happy when I was performing. I was a child actor, never a child star, or we'd be in rehab this through, right?

Ira Sternberg: Exactly.

Bruce Vilanch: But yeah. And they never stood in the way. They were hoping I would find something that would, that would, uh, produce income. You know, so they, they knew I wouldn't be a doctor like my father. And, and, but they were nurturing me into trial law because they figured, "Well, he can perform in court like Perry Mason." And you know, but I didn't want to work a room that small. Ironically, now I do frequently. That's…

Ira Sternberg: You mentioned a child actor, not a child star. And I just thought if had you been a child star, it would have been the Bruce Vilanch law instead of the Jackie Cooper law.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, no, I, uh, because my parents would not have taken advantage. The thing about, the thing about, I mean, anything like any money I made as a child, accurate into Bruce's college fund. So it was not, they were not living off of me.

Ira Sternberg: You know, the thing about Jackie Cooper and a lot of Jackie Coogan and a lot of other people not named Jackie who were kids was that their, that was the, that was the family revenue. They were all making money off of the kid. And, uh, so, uh, it was a whole different thing. The kid was a commodity. This was not the case in my family. Well, I mentioned about moving from the East Coast, New Jersey, New York, to Ohio, where amazingly you went to Ohio State. And then the big farm, the big farm. And so that I think was in a way a good, because it exposed you to people that a lot of people that live and work in Hollywood never get exposed to, which is in a way middle America. So I think it gives you that pot, a lot of people in Hollywood have run away from that. They were exposed to it when they were young, and they said they were getting out. But by moving there voluntarily, I should point out, with a bunch of other people, you at least absorb some of that what I would call middle American culture, which I think, and you may disagree, does that help your writing or it doesn't help your writing?

Bruce Vilanch: Well, yeah, I think, I mean, I lived in the Midwest for 10 years. I went to Ohio State for five years. And then I got a job with the Chicago Tribune. And Chicago, even though it's a big cosmopolitan city, is, is the Midwest. And the, uh, you know, it constantly shows up, certainly in the politics. I mean, at the Trip, we had a sign saying, "Remember that the southernmost point of Illinois is a hundred miles from the northernmost point of Mississippi."

Ira Sternberg: Wow.

Bruce Vilanch: So, uh, it was, it was a whole different mindset. And Chicago was a blue metropolis and an essentially red state. So it certainly, yeah. I mean, it helped seeing how, how the other half lived. You know, I, I, you know, I got to Ohio and met people who thought Jews had horns.

Ira Sternberg: Wait a minute, they don't?

Bruce Vilanch: Oh, okay. -ish. Why are there so many plastic surgeons? To remove the horns. Thank you. Bingo. But I mean, I met a lot of people who had never met a Jew in their life.

Ira Sternberg: Amazing.

Bruce Vilanch: And, uh, there they were in Columbus, Ohio, where, where ironically a kid I grew up with became the rabbi. Harold Berman is still the rabbi. I think he just retired. You know, there are communities in America where there are people that have never met a non-Jew.

Ira Sternberg: Well, only in Brooklyn, I think.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, I think there's more than one besides that. It's got to be somewhere else in the United States besides Brooklyn. I may be wrong. Well, where, where are the, what guys who work for Walmart? Bentonville, Arkansas, where they have an Orthodox Jewish community composed of accountants who were for Sam Walton.

Ira Sternberg: So here's a non-sequitur question. Do you think that deli will survive?

Bruce Vilanch: Oh yeah. Well, I think that, that the concept of a deli will survive. I, I, I mean, I think there's a lot more kosher style than there is kosher. I mean, the, the old school version of a deli, the kosher deli where you can't get, you know, milk, you can't get cream for your coffee, that I'm afraid may be going away because I don't think a lot of people observe it. Or I mean, as me, as, as many belchuvas as there are, which is, uh, a balchu is a French word meaning return, returns of the fold, the, the Baltimores who, who are living more orthodox lives, maintain, uh, kashrut. But, uh, I don't know that there's a market for a kosher deli outside of the very, very Jewish centers.

Ira Sternberg: Well, what about the secular idea of deli? I mean, I think it's become, you know, a universal thing. Bagels are certainly universal. Lox is universal, right? I mean, all that, that kind of stuff. Well, what, I guess, what I guess I'm saying is like Natan's, al is not kosher, or Factor's in LA. It's not kosher, but it's a deli that's part of the community and people get there. I mean…

Bruce Vilanch: Yeah, sure. It's just, it's a style. Absolutely, right. But I grew up with kosher. All the delis were kosher. I mean, that was, you know, and, and anything else they would put on the menu, kosher style. It was not actually kosher meat.

Ira Sternberg: Right. Kosher stuff. They prepared it like, like it was, yeah.

Bruce Vilanch: But we weren't kosher. We, we were those Jews who would go to the movies on Sunday and then have Chinese. That was our ritual. So. And, and it wasn't, it wasn't like, you know, Chinese, which would always make you laugh, right?

Ira Sternberg: That was my assigned question, or my non-sequitur question. But back to Bruce himself. Yeah, of all the acting and writing and performing that you've done, what was the most meaningful for you? Or maybe there's more than one. Maybe there's two or three within the context of humor, of course.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, uh, I'm, yeah, the most successful stuff with all the Academy Award shows and, and working with Bette Midler from the beginning and, uh, all of that. I mean, the most meaningful was the, the, the charity work and when we started doing benefits, raising funds for AIDS, for people who had AIDS and for AIDS research. Because, uh, when it started, it was a pariah and nobody wanted to touch it. And we had a, it was, it was an uphill struggle. Like Kate Bush. It was running up that hill. You know, we just, uh, we had, uh, but it was very meaningful because so many people we knew were sick and dying. And, uh, and the government was doing nothing. So it was almost the definition of meaningful. It was comedy with a purpose. And all comic relief was like that too. There was a great, uh, I mean, I did, we did 15 of them, I think. And, um, it was, it was great to know that we were, that comedians, normally picture those lighthearted individuals, when we all know they're angst-ridden, who were had, we're taking up the cudgels for these causes that the government had abandoned. And also too, it wasn't, in your case, it was actually, you know, nose to the grindstone or elbow to the whatever they call it. But the point is, it wasn't virtually so…

Ira Sternberg: Pedal to the metal. That's it. Penalty on the metal. It wasn't virtue signaling. You were actually elbow grease. That's where I'm going with that. You're hard working and putting these together.

Bruce Vilanch: Yeah, yeah, it's true. We did it. We were doing it. And, uh, at the beginning it was, uh, I would go to people and I would say, "Well, I'll, I'll, I will do your disease if you will do mine." So that's how I got to be on a first-name basis with all the major diseases. Spina bifida, I know all about it. Iconic pregnancies, I'm your guy. I got involved in every one of those things because it was a trade off. Then they would come and do an AIDS fundraiser. Sure.

Ira Sternberg: Now, as long as you didn't catch all those diseases you trade it off with, that's the important thing.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, yeah, exactly, right. But now there are so many new diseases to catch. Oh no, monkey…

(Both laugh)

Bruce Vilanch: I thought it was a ban. I thought it was due in the 60s. I think I was like…

(Both laugh)

Ira Sternberg: I'm always amazed that because of your ability to write and perform comedy, and you're just being, having a natural sense of humor, that you were able to put together all these charitable fundraising events. Because it does require a different skill set and different, and different mind focus.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, you know, but it is show business. I mean, you know, I mean there is, you're putting on a show. And it starts with that. You're, it's Mickey and Julian and we have costumes in the barn, right? People, it's, it's focused on a particular thing. And obviously you choose things that you, that will, will help hammer home the point of why you're raising this money. But it is, it still shows…

Ira Sternberg: I see what you're saying, but it still took getting off the couch, making phone calls, getting people to agree to handle the mechanics, the, the financial end of it.

Bruce Vilanch: Yeah, the show part I get. But still, you had to set up the organization.

Ira Sternberg: Oh yeah.

Bruce Vilanch: But I mean, that's, that's producing something I never really enjoyed doing. And I never, uh, that's why I never became a producer or a director. Because, uh, I, I didn't have the ego for that. You really have to, you know, have strong belief in everything you say and willing to go forward. And I would, I just like to, to write and perform. And I probably also, I never had anything that I wrote screwed up by a director enough that I was angry enough to become one.

Ira Sternberg: Right. No, I get you. A lot of writers do that, you know, they, "He screwed my script. The hell I'm gonna, I'm gonna direct the next one." Now there's one category in Hollywood, and I say this from afar, there's one category in Hollywood that is a testament to ego. And that is the title of executive producer. And I've noticed more and more movies and TV shows, they'll have one director, they'll have one producer, a co-producer, a consulting producer, a supervising producer, and then over 20 million executive producers.

Bruce Vilanch: Yeah. Well, that's basically two things. Basically, um, executive producer traditionally has been a way to give somebody who controls the rights to the material, uh, a title. And a lot of it had to do with, uh, if you, you could maybe win an award for this if you had a title as opposed to just being the behind the scenes. So you would see, uh, if a star was attached, his manager would be the executive producer. Because that way, and that, that also cut him in for some money. And so that's one thing. And the other thing is on television, there are a lot of writers on shows. And they're all at different pay grades. And so the different, the different pay grades dictates that they're going to be this kind of producer and that kind of rooster and all that. And, um, you know, so it's, it's just sort of madness. But it's all attached to, to the money, to where the money is coming from.

Ira Sternberg: Now I'm glad you explained it. Yeah. I was wondering about that. I kept seeing all these…

Bruce Vilanch: Well, it became so prevalent that the Producers Guild, which is, as you might guess, an organization of producers, has been giving awards for years. And I've been writing their show, which is never televised. We zoomed it a year before last, but I, I write it. And they started something called the Producer's Mark, which you will be noticing more and more. It'll say, "By, produced by so-and-so." And next to it will go PGA.

Ira Sternberg: Yes.

Bruce Vilanch: And, uh, that means you've seen that, that, that the Producers Guild has determined this is the person who actually produced the movie.

Ira Sternberg: Right. As opposed to the person who wrote a check so that the picture could get made. He gets a producer title also, but he doesn't get the producer's mark.

Bruce Vilanch: And that was to signify that there's a difference between, between…

Ira Sternberg: That's a smart idea. It's a guild designation similar to the cinematographer's guild and…

Bruce Vilanch: Right. They've had it for years and years.

Ira Sternberg: …smart ideas. That was just established to know that they were a member of the, of the union of the AFC, the Association of Cinematographers. It's not, uh… This is a little different because, I mean, this, this has a subtext.

Bruce Vilanch: Yes. They're members of the guild, but they're all members of the guild. But, uh, these are the ones who actually made that…

Ira Sternberg: Exactly. Now you've been in business so long that you've become a sage in a way.

Bruce Vilanch: I'm grabbing a bed so I can, I like it.

(Both laugh)

Ira Sternberg: Do you, obviously the industry has changed since you started in it. Are you of the firm belief or the infirm belief, since you recently had, is that, are you of the firm belief that talent will out? And what I mean by that is this, that someone who's extremely talented as you are, who can write and perform comedy, will always be in demand no matter how the industry changes. Or does it get to a point where the industry changes so much that all of a sudden they just want real housewives, so to speak.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, you, you're talking about, uh, two different things. I mean, uh, reality television happened thanks to the Writers Guild. And when the, when we went on strike, I think in 1988, up, maybe later, I didn't, on eight strikes with the Writers Guild since 1975. So I, I get the strikes confused. But one of them, uh, opened up reality television because the studios and the, the networks realized that you could, you could do reality TV cheaper than scripted TV. And, uh, eliminate writers altogether, or hire writers as consultants, or hire them as producers and they had writing duties. And the guild lost that one because, um, that, it proliferated. When streaming came in, the scripted material came back. There was a hunger for, for it on the streamers. And so now it's become like the new golden age. So, uh, a lot of that, a lot of that had to do with, with the mechanics of the industry. Uh, on the other issue, uh, there will always be, if you're talented, yes, they'll always be, you'll always be talented and there will be somebody. But you know, you get aged out. I mean, you're at a point where there are younger versions of you. I mean, it used to be a joke about the actors. You know, we, we'd like, uh, we'd like a, uh, we'd like a younger Macaulay Culkin. Or I'm trying to think of who did we, like a younger Justin Bieber. With like a younger Jackie Cooper. Oh, windmill.

Ira Sternberg: A younger Baby Huey.

Bruce Vilanch: And you, and you get aged out because they think, "Oh well, even if you're an iconic status, they kind of think, "Well, he's hit, but he, we need somebody, you know, young." And now of course, the last few years with, with, uh, uh, where people are so woke that they're insomniacs…

Ira Sternberg: Just get me somebody diverse. Get me an Eskimo lesbian.

Bruce Vilanch: I mean, just please, just, you know, staff it so that nobody pickets.

Ira Sternberg: Well, I have an idea for you. Wind up getting, getting people who are talented, but a lot of people who are also talented are along the outside. And I suppose that, that is the yin and the yang. Because these people were always marginalized and then there you have it. So what you could do, I have a great idea for you, Bruce. It's almost a new blacklist. So you could write under the name of an Eskimo lesbian.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, it's the front, it's the front. It's the Woody Allen movie. But it goes back to the blacklist days where blacklisted writers would, you know, shove the material under the door and somebody else's name would be on the page. And then 50 years later, when they're dead and buried, their grandchildren accept an Oscar in their behalf as their credit is restored.

Ira Sternberg: Well, that's why I'm suggesting it for you. Is if you write under the, of a pen name of an Eskimo lesbian, then you'll be fine.

Bruce Vilanch: As you mentioned earlier, I had a, a, a collaborator. He was a wonderful writer. Workflow for Bob Hope. And he wrote a lot of variety television years ago. And, uh, but he wasn't very happy with a lot of the stuff that he wrote. So he created an alter ego and, uh, a pen name, basically. And which you can do with the Writers Guild. And you can say, "I, I want to write this under my pen name." And the pen there has to be a name then. So, um, he used the same pen name over and over. And who called me one day and he said, uh, "My accountant just told me that my pen name is got more work last year than I did."

(Both laugh)

Bruce Vilanch: Hey, if the checks kept coming in and it was all for the kind of crap he didn't want to write, you know, Wayne Newton at the Sea World, he just was not doing, but, but he liked the money. So he created the alter ego.

Ira Sternberg: That's so funny. You, you mentioned collaborating with someone, and that's part of what you do a lot. And you are one of those people, again, ego aside, you are very much involved in collaborative writing, especially for the Oscars and other events. And, and a lot of rooms.

Bruce Vilanch: Yeah, and a lot of rooms. A lot of rooms.

Ira Sternberg: So what, how does that, if you can give us in the shorthand version, your process without getting too technical, for when you're collaborating versus when you're at home writing and looking at the screen.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, it's, writing's a very lonely profession. And when you're home and you're looking at the screen, uh, it's just you and the characters, or whatever, whatever the task at hand is. And I, you, you get to what I call the alpha state, which is where you don't care at anything else. You're totally lasered in on what you're doing. And that's wonderful. And that's where, that's the gratifying part of writing. That's akin to actually being on stage and, and being in the moment. Or on camera, being in the moment. Uh, you don't get the response the way you do in the theater, uh, but, or even from the crew on, on a, on a shoot. But it's a great, it's a great thing. And, uh, the other, the collaborative part is, uh, appeals to the performance side of me. Because when you're in a room with people, generally you are working on something that somebody else has already written a first draft of. And you are punching it up. You're making the jokes funnier. You're shifting. You're doing stuff. And so you get a chance to actually pitch. You get a chance to actually save the stuff. And, uh, and some people are real great performers in the room. And, uh, and it's fun. And it's collaborative. And you get a great, a great charge out of it. So I'm, I'm lucky that I've had a nice balance of all of that. I mean, performing for real and writing by myself and writing with a lot of other people. You know, I, I suspect the stuff that you're right with a lot of other people, it doesn't necessarily last through the ages, but I, I stopped caring about that when I realized I wasn't going to be around anyway. So…

Ira Sternberg: Yeah, when you confront your own mortality, you say a lot of stuff gets swept out of the way then. Understood. Any future projects, speaking of immortality? Or…

Bruce Vilanch: Well, I, I, yes. I wrote a musical. Uh, I will tell you about it because we are premiering it in September. During COVID, a friend of mine and I, the director, had an idea. And we, uh, we pitched it to a theater in Florida, which had the PPP, a Payroll Protection thing. And as part of the PPP, you had to develop new work. So we got a grant. And it's about a guy, he's 40 years old, he's gay, he's a would-be comic working as a waiter at a comedy club in New York. And COVID hits. And the club closes. And his relationship breaks up. And he goes to quarantine in the attic of his parents' home in Longview, Texas. Where he has an intimate relationship with his imaginary friend, Dolly Parton.

(Both laugh)

Bruce Vilanch: There was this guy and Dolly. And we used all of Dolly's…

Ira Sternberg: And you did a Zoom.

Bruce Vilanch: …and we did a Zoom. And they loved it in Florida. And they wanted to book it. And so I had to go to Dolly for the rights to the music. And I thought, "Well, you know, it's not her brand, so she probably won't, she'll shoot it down." She loved it.

Ira Sternberg: That's great.

Bruce Vilanch: He's now my partner. She's, she's in on it now. Of course we're doing it. We're doing it in seven regional theaters. One up in Nashville next spring, where she will unveil it. Uh, but we, we actually premiere at September 17th in Wilmington, Delaware, where the Bidens are subscribers.

Ira Sternberg: I hope he wears some ass-less…

(Both laugh)

Bruce Vilanch: …on September 17th, Delaware Theater Company, uh, in Wilmington. And then it will go to very various other cities. It's called "Here You Come Again," which is of course one of her big hits. And it's also, she keeps showing up in his mom…

Ira Sternberg: That's great. And of course she's going to go to the opening.

Bruce Vilanch: Well, I don't know. She'll go to Wilmington. She'll, she, she may hold off and wait until Nashville, you know, which is her home turf.

Ira Sternberg: Exactly.

Bruce Vilanch: I haven't discussed it with her. You know, she's very busy. I can't believe you're doing this in between curing cancer and doing a movement and what happened. She's done amazing. Every week there's a new thing about Dolly did this and all of that.

Ira Sternberg: Well, that's a great way to leave it. My guest has been the versatile and talented

Bruce Vilanch. For everything about Bruce, go to wegotbruce.com. And you can follow him on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. And Bruce, thanks for being on the show.

Bruce Vilanch: Wow, cool. Thank you. It was fun.

Ira Sternberg: It was. And join us every Thursday for a new smear on Ira's Everything Bagel.